This started out as a symbol e-mail to some friends and has turned into a full blown post. It all started with an e-mail that I sent asking if a certain symbol reminded them of something. Some interesting points were made and I decided I’d share them all with you.
First, let’s start with what got this whole thing running. It’s innocuous enough. Just a banner on some blogs that I came across while surfing on Blog Explosion. The only thing is that the symbol on the banner didn’t quite sit right with me. I knew it from somewhere, but I just couldn’t figure out where.
The banner in question was this one
The blogs in this alliance are right wing blogs. That wasn’t what peaked my curiousity. For the most part, I don’t read these blogs. When I do read them, I don’t look to see who they link up with.
No, what piqued my curiousity was the eagle symbol.
Here is the clearest image I could get of the eagle on the banner:
Now, I have to ask, is it just me or does this symbol remind you of this one:
In case the swastika didn’t give it away, that’s the symbol for the Nazi party. It was adopted during the 1930’s.
I will admit, I had seen that image over and over again and I just couldn’t place it until Saturday. For some reason when I saw the banner on Saturday the word “Nazi” popped into my head. I won’t say that the writing tipped me off. It didn’t. I hadn’t read anything on the site. My eyes were first drawn to the banner. From there I was opening another tab and asking jeeves about Nazi symbols. The first site I clicked on provided the eagle with the swastika above.
When I sent an e-mail to some friends asking if the alliance banner reminded them of the nazi symbol one person mentioned that the symbol was taken from Native American symbols. I was intrigued. I did some searching and found that the Native American eagle and the Nazi eagle are vastly different.
The Native American eagle was often symbolized like this
or like this one
However, the image of the thunderbird is very similar to the nazi eagle
So, does that prove that the image was taken from Native American culture (the nazi image that is). Not really. I’m not a scholar in this area but I do know that the eagle is not found only in the United States. Eagles have also long been used on the heraldry (coat of arms) in Europe. The black eagle was also the symbol of Prussia.
Of course, that’s far removed from where the e-mail first started. Let’s get back to that.
The question was does this
look suspiciously like this
or this
You see, the Nazi’s image had variations. It wasn’t set in stone. For example, on one work the eagle’s wings are down.
On another, the eagle is juxtaposed near a church.
The implication in that image is that God was on the Nazi’s side. Belt buckles didn’t just imply that God was with the Nazi’s . They outright said it.
“Gott Mit Uns” translates to “God is with us.”
There’s a lot I could say about the Nazi party and fascism. However, I already know that many members of this alliance insist that because the name of the Nazi party was National Socialist German Workers Party they were socialist. They refuse to acknowledge that just about every book on fascism includes Nazi Germany among the examples.
They also forget that just because you call yourself something doesn’t mean that you really are that thing. I could call myself a Republican but few people would believe that I agreed with their views.
So, I ask, did anyone in this alliance realize just how similiar their symbol is to the Nazi symbol? Surely it wasn’t intentional. Just a lack of knowledge. Of history, that is.
Crossposted on Bring It On!
Jason says:
That symbol for the “right-wing” blogs is meant to mimic a U.S. military award. The wings resemble “jump wings,” worn by paratroopers.
10/10/2005, 11:17 amLes says:
It is an interesting coincidence… enough to get you thinking
10/10/2005, 4:36 pmDana says:
Very interesting post.
10/10/2005, 6:26 pmsk says:
very interesting
10/10/2005, 9:46 pmJB says:
I’m wondering about the latin on the symbol. Doesn’t it mean ‘Instapundit is destroyed’?
10/10/2005, 10:25 pmOr maybe I’m getting my verb tenses mixed up, and it means ‘Instapundit is detroying’…
Amal says:
Fascinating. Absolutely fascinating.
10/11/2005, 12:49 amEnergyPaws says:
Although maybe off topic a bit, you may be interested to know that there is some suggestion that the swastika was taken from the Pagan symbol for showing movement of the seasons. The best article I’ve found online so far is here : http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefsswastika.htm
10/11/2005, 11:36 amJourneyman says:
Ooooh freaky.
I’m sure it’s just an unfortunate coincidence and it’s seems a little unfair to make the implication that they’re fascists just because their symbol is a bit similar. Mushroom clouds and fungi anyone?
However…saying that whenever anyone is described as right-wing I do generally think ‘Nazi’ anyway.
Interesting blog.
10/11/2005, 3:47 pmsally says:
That is very very freaky!
Is is a coincidence? Hard to say…it is an image that has been used repeatedly.
10/11/2005, 10:26 pmBlue says:
Normally I would say they reflcet the American military symbols, but with the Bush admin I tend to think fascicm as well.
10/12/2005, 3:10 pmMark Daniels says:
This is silly. Their only commonality is that they are eagles. You might as well as say the same thing about eagles that appear in the Seal of the United States, of Franklin Roosevelt’s National Recovery Administration, or on the flight patch of Apollo 11.
10/12/2005, 5:38 pmsally says:
While the eagle is not an uncommon symbol…it has used on a lot of symbols IE your money. However, when you compare the Blogger Alliance symbol of the holding the star thing with it’s feet it does bear a striking resemblance to the Nazi symbol of the eagle holding the swastika with it’s feet.
10/12/2005, 7:45 pmWalkiria says:
Outstanding. I think this post should take us in a search for more data. Symbols are powerful in conveying ideas and concepts. They can make us cry or spring into action (a flag),etc. We have and eagle and “in God we trust” in our currency so I don’t think what you just said alone means a lot.
So,could it be that the same image can convey different things to different people? As I was watching “Rome” the other night, I saw the eagle as one of Caesar’s symbols, I don’t know how true to history that coul be. The eagle is alway associated with authority,power… If the group in question have other characteristics that would make you belief that it has some connotations that could be linked to “nazi” and “fascism” I think you have found something worth looking at.
10/17/2005, 2:56 pmSteve the Pirate says:
Yep, that’s right. All right-wingers are wanna-be Nazi fascists. Gotta love that leftie logic there, that’s for sure.
I suppose the Presidential Seal would resemble Hitler’s eagle emblem. Wait a minute…does that make Bush a Nazi? Oh noes!!
If only you knew how hard we are laughing at your stupidity right now.
10/25/2005, 7:44 ammulligan says:
I love how you read more into what I wrote than was there. I asked only about one symbol. You are generalizing that I meant more than one. You are welcome to make such broad generalizations, but they make you look like a fool.
If only you knew how hard I was laughing at your stupidity right now.
jimmyb says:
Please keep up the great posting.
People like you are what drive the mainstream from the Democratic party more and more.
I love pointing stuff like this out to my misguided Democrat friends.
Thank you!
And God Bless!
PS -
People like you might be spared come the theocracy!
(For you left-wingers, that was sarcasm. Don’t cry or surrender or anything! Relax and put down the rolled-up newspaper.)
10/25/2005, 7:29 pmmulligan says:
jimmyb,
Ahh, more assumptions and generalizations. I’m not a democrat. And, once again I point out that I was only talking about one symbol used by one group.
I love all the assumptions and generalizations I’m getting from the right for this post. Just goes to show that you are quick to ridicule without bothering to make sure your assumptions are valid.
jimmyb says:
I just assumed you were a dem.
A thousand pardons to you and your fellow communists, greens, socialist workers party, whatever.
They’re hard to differentiate sometimes.
By the way, have you seen the action item list of the Nazi Socialist Party? Could be right out of the lefts talking points list, many of them. FYI, this post shows some of them, without you having to go to thier site..
See, Socialism Bad!
Your sidebar links pretty much tell me where on the spectrum you lie, regardless of your self-professed moniker (whatever that may be).
Regards,
CUG
10/25/2005, 8:36 pmmulligan says:
I’d like to know exactly what you were quoting. It wasn’t the 25 points of Hitler’s Nazi party. That can be found here. Yes, many things can be said to be similiar but there are also quite distint and important differences.
Besides, Hitler only used those points to help gain control of the party and to justify what he did. His ultimate goal was in gaining all power and all the wealth for himself and his inner circle.
“I am ready to swear six false oaths every day.” — Hitler
Have you read the
14 characteristics of fascism? Notice any similarities to what has been happening for the last 5 years?
Daniel Levesque says:
This is laughable. Maybe you should look at the back of a quarter sometime. There’s an eagle with spread wings with stuff in its claws there too.
http://www.ravingconservative.com
10/25/2005, 10:36 pmmulligan says:
I have looked at the back of a quarter. The eagle there is holding a couple of branches. Not a circle with something else inside it. That makes a big difference.
Uber says:
Why, come on over, I have an answer.
10/26/2005, 10:27 pmmulligan says:
Uber and others in the Alliance,
Once again, I did not paint you all as Nazis. I simply asked this question: “So, I ask, did anyone in this alliance realize just how similiar their symbol is to the Nazi symbol?”
I’m not generalizing this statement to mean that I think that the members of this alliance are Nazis. The members of this alliance and a couple of commentors are making that generalization.
Daniel Levesque says:
Perhaps you wouldn’t be getting so many mocking responses to this posting if you knew your history better. Eagles with spread wings and various items in their claws have been used as national and organizational symbols for centuries if not longer. By using such a common symbol to compare a group of active conservatives to one of the the two groups of people conservatives despise most (the other being socialists/communists) you have made yourself a lightning rod for eternal mockery.
http://www.ravingconservative.com
10/27/2005, 3:54 pmMillman says:
It is funny that you say that you are just making a statement about how they look a like but in you writting you say that “the word ‘Nazi’ popped in your head”. From that statement you are saying that they in the alliance are Nazi’s.
As my friend JimmyB states he can tell which side of the fence you lie.
Just another try by the left to say that us conservatives are Nazi’s.
10/27/2005, 6:10 pmmulligan says:
Actually, Daniel, I do know that. If you’d read my post and my remarks to people’s comments you would know that. By making that statement you’ve proved that you haven’t read my post and are simply following the crowd.
As for Millman’s comment, by writing “the word ‘Nazi’ popped in” my head I meant exactly that in regards to the symbol and the symbol only. If you’d read any other posts by me you would know that I try not to make assumptions about an entire group. As I stated above that sentence, I’d never followed the links and I didn’t know anything about the group.
Just for clarification for both of you (and any others coming in over two weeks after this first went up), I wrote at the beginning of this post “The only thing is that the symbol on the banner didn’t quite sit right with me. I knew it from somewhere, but I just couldn’t figure out where.”
Have you ever recognized something or seen something that reminds you of something that you just can’t quite put your finger on? It happens to most people at one time or another. When it does, sooner or later you figure out what it reminds you of. You have a “Ah-ha” moment when a word or phrase pops into your mind. That, Millman, was want I meant by “the word ‘Nazi’ popped” into my mind. Finally, after wondering about it for awhile, I realized what the symbol remind me of.
The only people saying that you are Nazi’s are you. I said in my post and I’ve said over and over in comments that I was only wondering if anyone else saw the resemblence.
Personally, I think you all are getting too bent out of shape about the whole thing. Someone, back when I first wrote this, commented either here or on Bring It On! that the group in question were a bunch of people with a sense of humor. So far all I’ve seen are a few people with a sense of humor and a bunch of others who seem to take everything personally.